Wednesday, April 19, 2006

Hamas admits involvement

The latest statement by the government spokesman, Nasser Joudeh, describes a meeting between the political advisor of the Palestinian prime minister Ahmad Yousef, the spokesman for the Palestinian government, Ghazi Hamad, and the head of the Jordan representative office in Gaza, Yahya Qarala. The issue was the planned terrorist operations foiled in Jordan.

According to Joudeh, Ahmad Yousef stated that "they are searching and investigating the issue of these weapons to learn how they entered and the individuals behind this operation".

The Palestinian spokesman added that Hamas rejects intervention in Jordanian affairs, and they want the relationship to stay strong.

Ghazi Hamad stated that what happened might have been done as an individual act (so much for Hamas discipline), and also said that targeting Jordan was not Hamas policy. How nice.

So, a face saving solution is reached. The terrorists acted individually.

Anyway, where is everybody who said that the government was lying?

Please note my new slogan at the top of the page.

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30 Comments:

At 10:17 PM, Blogger Oleander said...

people really have jumped the gun on that one.

lol i like the new slogan, sheklo ijak el 3agel el 3anjarawi :)

 
At 10:56 PM, Anonymous hamede said...

Done as an individual act,i dont see admiting by hamas.

 
At 11:05 PM, Blogger Batir Wardam said...

Khalaf I still need more evidence. I am really concerned with the credibility of the government statements. I know Jordan is targeted by Qaeda and that each month a new terrorist plan is foiled. I do not want any statements that do not convince the people of Jordan and will have negative consequences on the credibility of real terrorist threats coming from Al Qaeda. I still do not see Hamas, as an organization stupid enough to target Jordan. If this statement is true it would mostly be the act of a small network and not necessarily approved by Hamas leadership.

 
At 11:27 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

are you the

1-anonymous.

2-or the informer.

 
At 11:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

No suspects paraded on JTV yet? Afterall, the burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused and the government in Jordan still needs to prove.

As Wardam said, the credibility of the government is on the line here and the government looks increasingly lacking in initiative in proving its case (save for Saleh Qallab appearing on Al-Arabiya and pointing that Syria smuggles weapons to Jordan through Iraq and that Hamas is going to detabilize the whole Middle East on orders from Iran, lol).

How is saying "we will investigate" an admission? I assume if Hamas said "we wont investigate" it will also be an admission?

 
At 12:26 AM, Blogger Khalaf said...

Come on guys. Give it up. What more evidence is there than saying "we are searching and investigating the issue of these weapons to learn how they entered and the individual behind this operation". It is clear that the evidence is with the Jordanian government, and Hamas is trying to disavow itself a la "mission imposible".

I forgot. Arabs never admit they are wrong.

 
At 12:26 AM, Blogger OmAr said...

The title of your post is so optimistic ,LOL

I personally didn't know that confessions are made this way!! I must revise my informations as soon as possible. :)

 
At 12:58 AM, Blogger moi said...

Thanks for the update Khalaf :) But I must disagree again. I do not see this as "proof" of Hamas's involvement or as a confession of sorts. They are simply acting like any accused government would when such claim is made against them: they will investigate. I didn't think that the Jordanian government was completely fabricating the story; it's not far-fetched that they would find some guys with such weapons. However, immediately connecting those individuals to Hamas, the political party now governing the PA, is wreckless and simply casts doubt on the legitimacy of the government's claims. Most bloggers and journalists have pointed out, and I would agree, that Hamas has too much to lose at this point to make such a stupid mistake. A party that recently scored an upset win against all odds cannot be that un-savvy. The Jordanian government has a longer history of such tricks than does Hamas with attacks outside Israel.

 
At 12:59 AM, Blogger Batir Wardam said...

The prime Minister has told the IAF deputies this evening that the weapons got smuggled from Syria. This reinforces my own idea that if such an act has been done, it would be an "external" hamas cell or network linked with Syria or Zarqawi. I still do not think the leadership of Hamas in palestine would commit such a grave mistakes. However, time will tell more.

 
At 1:05 AM, Blogger Khalaf said...

Moi and Batir: I suggest that you re-read my February 11 post here

 
At 1:12 AM, Blogger Hamzeh N. said...

Khalaf, I read the statement and I didn't find a confession!!!!!

 
At 1:20 AM, Blogger Khalaf said...

Hamzeh: There is an implicit confession by the lack of a denial. The Palestinian officials were probably confronted with solid evidence. The official Hamas line quickly changed from "Jordan is doing this to please the US and Israel" to "well, it was probably a renegade group, and we should investigate".

It seems that the Jordanian government policy is to allow for a face saving resolution to this.

 
At 3:12 AM, Anonymous jameed said...

I'll say this again here: I'd like to be able to believe the government, but more so I'd love to be able to believe Hamas.

I like your new e-personality. I would though you revise the slogan to "You know I'm right (unless the Jameed guy disagrees).

 
At 4:43 AM, Blogger Hamzeh N. said...

Khalaf, yalla 3ad implicit confession by way of a lack of denial? You know this doesn't pass.

Also, remember that this statement wasn't made by Hamas. It was made by the Jordanian government spokesman; there's a big difference. You don't seriously think the Jordanian government would be interested in producing a statement that says "well, we met with the Hamas representative today, and he basically told us we were lying and we argued and argued ...".

Also, you have to remember that most of the times people meet to have "a talk", they come out all smiles and giggles. I imagine you've seen the videos of the meetings that used to happen between Palestinian and Israeli negotiation teams. They would be sitting at the same table, eating, drinking, joking and laughing, but when someone tries push something on the other, they would say "no no" and they would laugh off the tension. And when it gets more serious, then sometimes the language they use gets more serious. In Camp David Arafat and Barak were laughing in front of the cameras, but when they wanted to pressure Arafat to sign the deal, I can assure you he wasn't smiling.

The meeting that happened between the Jordanian government and Hamas was just protocol. Like Bater said neither side can implicate the other and as such they are both forced to show restraint and talk about "cooperation".

I don't think this qualifies as anything close to a confession by Hamas, whether implicit or explicit.

 
At 6:23 AM, Blogger Khalaf said...

Hamzeh: What about this article in Alarab Alyawn.


It says that 1- the PM told the IAF mp's details about the case, including where the weapons came fro (Syria), and 2- The two suspects will be shown on television shortly.

Would that be good enough?

 
At 7:36 AM, Anonymous Nas said...

"Would that be good enough?"

an attack..?

 
At 7:55 AM, Blogger Hamzeh N. said...

Khalaf, again, no confession from the Palestinian government that it participated in this (this is the topic of your post), and so far no hard evidence presented by the Jordanian government that implicates it.

And let me say this. Even if this story wasn't fabricated and there truely are individuals who entered Jordan with weapons with the intent of either smuggling them outside or using them inside Jordan against any targets, that still doesn't say that they necessarily were acting based on directions from the Palestinian government and with its knowledge. But then again, before we can go there, we would have to be certain that there truely are such weapons that were recently smuggled into the country, and for that there still is no sufficient evidence, and quite honestly, I don't see that there ever will be sufficient evidence presented to the people, which is why I think you and I can never really defend our opinions as facts, but only as speculations.

Nas, tell me how else you (as an outside observer and recepient of government sponsored news) can ever be 100% sure.

 
At 9:56 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

"Lack of denial is an implicit confession"?

Is this the Jordanian understanding of a fair trial? The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. So far the goverment of Jordan stands naked in the wind and needs to cover itself quickly (even with a fig leaf).

The accused on TV? Who has control over the filming, editing and directing of those filmed "confessions"? Unless there is an independent body to verify the confessions, guarantee them a fair trial (so much for independent jurisdiction branch in Jordan that agrees to film the suspect and violate their privacy), and without the usual mokhabarat abuse and beatings I am afraid this confession will only reinforce the idea that the government is window dressing its claims.

How about you take a step back and see how ridiculous this is? America pressures the Arabs, the usual Arabs we expect bend in but are given the leeway to chose the excuse they prefer (surprisingly this time even Qatar did not bend in! Saudi too threw it in the face of America). This is insulting to your intelligence.

 
At 11:37 AM, Anonymous Madison said...

Anonymous prefers not to let facts interfere with a good rant. And how much proof is needed to satisfy those who demand "100%" of evidence before they can reach a conclusion?

I hope more is made public about this. Both governments should realize its in their interest to make more public about this affair. I also hope the public and the bloggers stay interested in this past one caffeine cycle.

 
At 11:38 AM, Blogger Laila said...

I agree-definitely not by direction of the government here in Palestine. It is well known there is different modes of operating procedure in the hamas leadership inside and outside. plus if there were weapons, i highly doubt it would be to attack jordan (if you honestly think this you are watching too much Jordanian tv). If anything, I could see weapons smuggling by an armed wing by some individual, but again, how they would smuggle those into the West BAnk???? give me a break! This is all too absurd for words. And honestly it falls pathetically in line with the isolation of the Hamas government-here we are in Gaza subject to political and economic isolation and starvation, but to make matters worse are own hypocrtical so-called arab brothers and sisters betray us- i mean since when did Saudi recognize Israel for it to demand that Hamas does?! I was going to say I expected better from Jordan, but then from a country that officially does not even talk about Black September or mention it in its textbooks...

King Abdullah may as well be making babies with Tzipi Livni. Honestly, I will never forget when the Jordanin Minister of Economy came to vist Gaza last year before disengagement, and in a press conference kept talking about a "Free trade zone" between the aghwar il daffa and Jordan, as if he is living in some fantasy world (hello..they are all controlled by Israel) and then when someone mentioned to him the potential problems of al-mintar/karni crossing out of gaza following disengagement, he has to seek assistance from his assistant to learn the the name of the crossing.

And if we are wrong, we are wrong-and I will be the first to say "i was wrong"-show us the weapons, the link to the Hamas government, and other evidences.

 
At 12:39 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

A different anon.

madison: "And how much proof is needed to satisfy those who demand "100%" of evidence before they can reach a conclusion"

umm, 100%? The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. Read a bit about principles of (fair) trial.

Yes, you need uncontestable evidence and proof beyond a shred of doubt. Until we see that from the government of Jordan, we are to call this a "claim".

"Anonymous prefers not to let facts interfere with a good rant."

The irony is, your post lacks any facts. Re-read it and try to give me a single fact you provided. Who is ranting?

 
At 3:28 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

The Syrian Government has announced today that it will be taking in the 30,000 Palestinian refugees stranded on the Jordan-Iraq border for 6 months after Jordan refused them entry visas on humanitarian basis.

Of course, it is ironic that Americans and British citizens do enter Jordan almost at will, albeit with visas granted at the border in a ceremonial bureaucratic process. Yet the Palestinians (who in some cases are married to Jordanian citizens) are left waiting for a visa for 6 months despite the UN charter guaranteeing asylum on humanitarian grounds.

With this announcement following the Hamas-is-going-to-take-over-Jordan by the Jordanian government, the only fig leaf left has been blown by the wind.

 
At 3:43 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is up with all of you?! You must think that the Jordanian government is so stupid that they don't know there would be backlash to them lying about Hamas?

Fact is, Hamas or an individual affliated with Hamas smuggled weapons through our country and threatened our security once again. Our government foiled the attempt, told us about it and what do we do? We say they're lying. They're not. Face it. Do you know why? Because there's an admission.

When Hamas says that they will investigate, it's either because a) they are as upset about this as we are and want to get to the bottom of this by showing solidarity with Jordan or b) they've been caught and need to save face. If they really had nothing to do with it, what would there be to investigate?

Please people wake up. Stand by your country, for the love of God!

 
At 3:59 PM, Anonymous Khaled said...

anon: "Fact is, Hamas or an individual affliated with Hamas smuggled weapons through our country and threatened our security once again."

The fact that you say "its a fact" doesn't make it one. Ever heard of "proof"? I know its a new idea in the Arab world, but its a very useful concept.

 
At 4:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Khaled,

You seem very comfortable insulting the intelligence of the Arab people. Proof is not a new concept to Arab people. It's people like you that contribute to the negative perception of Arabs all around the world.

You're the every day guy who is Arab himself yet regrets being one. You either wishe you can live in a western country because they are the land of opportunity or you already live outside the Middle East and have no clue who and what Arabs are all about.

I feel sorry for you.

 
At 4:32 PM, Anonymous Khaled said...

anon: In fact, I meant to say its a new concept for the Jordanian government, but then I remembered Arab regimes are oblivious to this concept. I generalized and I take it back.

You realize you are comitting an ad hominen fallacy? Personal attacks are not a way to argue. Feel sorry or dont feel sorry for me, thanks for the sympathy mate.

 
At 7:01 AM, Anonymous Madison said...

Anon: Let's hope there is a trial, which was my point. And your standard of proof exceeds all those actually used. Time to ratchet down the rant, big guy.

 
At 10:04 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

madison: personal insults and condescending statements are no replacement for a good arguement, big boy :)

"my" standards? seems like history runs backwards in your frame of reference? maybe its time to read the tens of intellectuals that put down the principles of modern law, logical debate and scientific proof? I recommend Aristotle and Popper to show you the span of time.

 
At 10:31 AM, Anonymous Madison said...

Anon: Thanks for the recommendations. Having done those, I'd be grateful to have your recs for those authorities considered to be the basis for law and justice in the Arab world, Islamic and otherwise. Thanks in advance for these.

 
At 5:31 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

hassan irbidawy,
what i can say is that i agreee with everything khalaf said, hamas is involved in someway,mabye by individual members of hamas, about syria for sure its involved, i live at the border with syria, i believe that every political or non political problem will come from the syrian border,druge....weapons come from there,our gov try manytimes to handel and talk with the syrian gov about theie borders,but untill now i dont think that our gov succsess on that.

 

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